I just got back from vacation so I missed being part of much of this conversation…however I see the discussion has really had some legs.

What I take away from all of this is that many people in this discussion feel just like me and long form hard selling letters will not work for them. Indeed we instantly associate long form with rubbish and walk away from it.

However it also seems clear that long form letters work, so I guess the majority of people are always going to be gullible and hungry to believe the dreams they are being sold.

So we just need to make sure we know our customer when we make the pitch, if it is a mass market product long from should be best. For other demographics different methods may be more successful.

I thunk I mentioned way back that my initial question to Michelle was aimed more at asking if the long form letter was becoming less effective these days as it is hard to believe that people just keep reading them…well I guess I have been told that apparantly they do, …so go figure

Mark.

The odd long sales letters I received prior to getting involved with IM, really turned me off and made me inherently suspicious with my brain going into a kind of, ‘looking for the scam mode’. I would not buy from them on principal, even if they apparently delivered something I was specifically looking for. They simply reeked of scam, scam scam! I therefore struggled to understand their place in the IM process as they seemed to me, to be horrible and ineffective.

Looking at the marketing world in this subjective way though is I think a mistake. When we decide to market, it’s important to be able to focus on what actually works as against what we would like to work. Or put another way, view the world as it really is and not get locked into a mindset based on our own biases.

The challenge is to capture people’s attention in a world were there’s way more information than anyone can possibly absorb and multiple sources competing for that attention. The marketing game is therefore always going to be changing, evolving new ways to be different, to be noticeable.

Long sales letters therefore would appear to have a place simply because they work. For now anyway. I suspect that like all methods of marketing though they will reach a point where they will become less effective and an alternative way of being different will evolve, clearly video right now is the emerging and hot process.

The big saving grace for IM and in my opinion one of the best things about the internet generally is the empowerment that the individual now has to deliver positive and or negative feedback not only to the vendor but also to other customers.

As a consumer what I want to see are ways that enable me to know if claims that are made are real or not. This is especially important to me if they are on a long sales letter. Am I being conned, am I being sold a poor quality product, or are the claims simply overstated? Canned endorsements are valueless to me personally; endorsements and or criticisms that I can trust or validate in some way are priceless though. Clearly this is where building a relationship of trust is maybe so important.

I wonder what your thoughts are regarding mechanisms for soliciting open feedback from customers, its value in reality and best processes for getting it?

Speaking as a customer, one of the first things I look at is the little scroll bar on the left. The smaller it is, the more likely I’ll just click away. I hate those ultra long sales pages.

There have been many times I will read the first 10-12 paragraphs and get excited for the product, but by the time I’m at the bottom of the page, I’ve forgotten what I was excited about.

Another thing that really bugs me is having to search for the price. “It’s $9000, it’s not even $900, or even $90.” Well then HOW MUCH IS IT???

Some people have even gone to the extreme of putting a link that says, “Click here for our discounted price.” The price isn’t even on the page. They have to have one heck of a product before I will even bother.

OK, I’ve blown off enough steam for one day. I feel better now.

I don’t see long copy as ’slimy’ sales but as more informative than I, a skimmer, generally needs, but respect the fact that others may need more info.

Two cents from a very new newbie.

TyAnne

I love the stories that long sales letters can tell, but I try to maintain an awareness of them so I don’t “fall” for them easily.

There are some sales tactics that I do despise, such as the shouting commercial guy (Easy Off Bam!). I do refuse to buy from that company based on their sales tactics alone, but I guess it works for them.

We just need to approach it as different tools… what will work for one market, might not work for another, that’s why we test and eliminate loosing variable to get closer to what works for specifically our market.

There is no need to compare apples with oranges. Both of them have unique characteristics and different set of vitamins, which we both need.

Better and better,
Narek Gabrielyan

I think it simply proves that there are too many foolish people in the world with too much time on their hands…but according to the real world experience I see in preceding posts they really do work.

…however, I think I will suspend my faith in humanity until they do not

Anyway, it seems that if I wish to market certain types of proucts/services effectively the lesson I learn is that I should use this format (as long as the product/service delivers on the promise and does not burn valuable relationships for short term gains).

Hmmm… I think I feel a headache coming on!…I better grab the “Head On” stick and rub that pointless goo on my forehead…it really does work right ?? :-O

When I come across a long sales letter (in any niche) from someone I don’t “know”, I click away. No amount of testimonials and benefits are going to persuade me because I have no idea who you are and I don’t TRUST you. For all I know, you & your slimy mates spent a drunken Saturday night seeing who could come up with the most believable testimonials to put in your letter so you could scam enough dollars for a week in Las Vegas. OK, perhaps I’m getting a bit carried away…

Marketer POV: I can understand why marketers persist with long sales letters. The numbers consistently say they work best. I can see the logic in providing the benefits, testimonials and overcoming obstacles.

But I can’t help thinking there must be a better way of achieving those things. One that doesn’t “cheapen” the purchasing experience. One that works just as well for the cynical consumers like me, and there seem to be a lot of us out there.

The standard I set for anything I’ll promote is does it provide value beyond its cost to the consumer? I want repeat business so that’s where I set the bar.

Unfortunately, most buyers in the IM/MMO market are seeking the magic, secret, super-underground and no-work-required code to instant profits. That one piece to what they perceive is a grand puzzle which will suddenly bring them the success they’re craving.

I wonder if those who feel strongest against long copy are often those who felt let down by products they’ve purchased in the past?

Mainly because there are no magic bullets or secret codes. Online or off, success comes from smart planning, hard work, good timing and maybe a little luck.

Most of the IM products I’ve ever seen offered decent information.

But that information alone doesn’t = value, only if it’s applied does it become valuable to the consumer.

So, buyers looking for magic and sellers offering reality–there’s bound to be a backlash eventually.

Forgive me if I’ve strayed off topic a bit, but it relates to my biggest question whenever I see this topic arise.

Don’t you want the specs and system requirements before buying some software program? Isn’t it a plus to know how existing users of the software seem to feel about it?

Would you buy a car based on the color alone, or do you want to know how it handles on curves and how many miles per gallon it gets too?

In my mind long copy gives the consumer the best chance possible to make an informed purchasing decision with, so why would anybody object to that?

I told you I couldn’t shut up.

There is nothing wrong with the horse and buggy days. Heck I learned what networking was back in the early 80s. When the telephone, shaking hands and confronting people in their living rooms was where it was at. Those days were lost for a while but the concept is reemerging fast. I actually know what you mean though and there is no offence on my part.

I think this is my point with most long sales letters. There always seems to be a major highlight on the, look what I have, look how much I make, I am fantastic!

People fall for the dreams that they can do the same. We know that is so not true in most cases.

I have been waiting a long time for a personal testimonial that says, Look at the thousands of people I have helped make tones of money. As a matter a fact here are 112 people that are actually making more money than I am because of my helping them. I love what I do and the people that I help are like my family.

Not that would be something to brag about. And I guarantee it would sell in a short sales page, if it were the truth. Because we all know the truth always comes out, especially out here.
Hell I think that will be my next goal, Help the most people make money, and brag on the shortest sales page in the world, so I can help more people make money.

Something that has been widely overlooked is that if you are really not helping people make money, they won’t have any to spend.

Always my Best
Brad West ~ onomoney

By saying that someone who uses a long form sales letter is a “horse and buggy” marketer is like saying that everyone who reads a long form sales letter will pull out their wallet when they reach the end of the letter.

Social marketing is a “new” concept for the Internet. It has been around since the horse and buggy days, since you had to go to the blacksmith to get your buggy and your horse worked on, and you did develop a relationship with that blacksmith. No, he didn’t need a long copy salesletter, because he was there to answer the questions of every prospect.

The sales letter is the relationship builder, since the product owner is not available 24/7 to answer questions and build relationships.

Alejandro stated that it is dangerous to assume that everyone who writes a long copy sales letter is out to take money by force, and I agree, since the goal of the salesletter is to develop a relationship with the prospect to get them to the point where they feel it is a good decision to place their money in the hands of this person that they have never met before for a product that they have not had a chance to try.

Sure, there are copy writers who do use high pressure sales tactics to get people to make an uninformed buying decision before a certain time runs out, but those same people also get more refunds than the folks who take the time to develop the relationship with their copy.

I did not start making sales until I started explaining who I was, and what I had to offer. That added at least an extra 3 – 6 pages to my salesletter, because people want to know who I am and that I deliver what I say I am going to.

Testimonials, when they are genuine, are the best way to figure out if someone’s product is good. I once had a marketer who gets a lot of respect tell me, “write whatever you want about yourself and your product and put my name down.” I simply refused to include his testimonial on my sales page, because I did not want to just make up my testimonials, I want to show that my product and my service stand on their own!

So, before accusing people of being in the horse and buggy days, make sure you are not pointing yourself out…